Daniel Berk

Daniel Berk: I love just to do a bunch of stuff and I get bored doing one thing for too long. And then after a while, I'm like, I I feel like I need to do something risky. The literal worst case that happens is 12 months from now I crash and burn and I just go get a job. Worst case is not that bad. So let me bet on myself for that. Every single person starts at zero. So the the moment you realize this random person who I'm never gonna meet ever gave me a dollar. You're like, wait a second, I can do this again. Okay, go do it again then. That's all entrepreneurs are doing is they find one thing that someone buys and they do it a million times.

Mike Wystrach: Welcome to the very first Advantage podcast. We appreciate you tuning in today and would love your feedback. Today's guest is Daniel Burke. This is going to be a fun one. Daniel was one of the first employees at Beehive, helped grow that business from almost zero when he joined to over $30 million in ARR. At the same time, he built his own business while he was a very successful employee there ⁓ in podcasts. Became the host of MoneyWise, which is one of the largest startup-focused podcasts out there. Really fun conversation. We're going to dig into a lot of these different Topics. ⁓ really excited to have them on. A quick one before we start. This show is brought to you by Propel. They find brands like yours exceptional marketing and operational talent in the US, Latinam markets, and beyond. For now, the links are in the show notes, and all of our listeners get 10% off your first hire. Okay, let's get into it. All right, perfect. Well, Daniel, super excited. I actually just got to do your podcast. So we're doing an exchange here. So now we're flipping the table. You were interviewing me and now I got to interview you. Yeah. Really excited on this for multiple reasons. First of all, a lot of things you're doing are the things I'm now leaning into. So I'm gonna like pick your brain on a lot of these things. But I also think your arc, you're going from working for people to now stepping out and doing your own thing and you know, growing kind of multiple different brands at the same time while learning a whole new medium is just gonna be, I think, really exciting for our audience to listen to. Yeah. Perfect. Well, so first of all, why don't you give a quick introduction of yourself? I'd love to hear like two minutes.

Daniel Berk: Can't wait. Thanks for having me on.

Mike Wystrach: Re you know, tell me about yeah.

Daniel Berk: ⁓ well, I I love to build. And so right now I'm I feel like I'm generalist is maybe the not the right word, but I love just to do a bunch of stuff and I get bored doing one thing for too long. And so from very early on, I mean I I started a landscaping business when I was 12. Wow. And I was a really big 12-year-old. ⁓ you might not be able to tell, I'm sitting down right now, but I'm six foot five. And when I was 12, I think I was close to six feet tall. So I was like full grown at 15. And so 12 years old, I was walking around the neighborhood and I was charging people $30 to $75 to mow their lawn. And it was a summer, and I obviously had to go back to school after the summer was over. So I just had to stop mowing lawns, but I was making good money at 12. So early on, I just felt, man, I making money is you can just go make money. If you try hard enough, you can go make money. So that, you know, threw my early. Let's call high school years and into college. I always just thought, can I make money doing this? You know, I'm in school. I'm like, can I make money with fixing people's computers? So through college, I was at Clemson. ⁓ I went to school for history and philosophy. Super random. I just wanted to get out as fast as possible. Very marketable major. So marketable. Yeah. It's the best, the best major I could think of. But I worked in IT for Clemson University while I was getting that degree. And that's random. Everyone else was a computer science, computer engineer. I was a history major working in IT at Clemson. Meanwhile, I also had my own marketing agency building websites, which I learned how to do because I worked in IT, fixing people's websites and computers while I was getting a history degree. Again, super random. After I graduated, I moved to Spain. My then girlfriend, now wife, got a Fulbright scholarship. She went and taught. Spanish and English in Spain. I was like, well, I don't want to live across the ocean from you. So I'll just figure out how to move there. I figured out how to get a job teaching English, but didn't pay very well. So I started my own marketing agency, building people's marketing engines and websites in the US while I was lived in Spain. So it's all this stuff just compounds over time. And you're like, I know how to do just enough to sell. So while I'm selling that service, I'm gonna learn the twenty other things I have no idea how to do while selling this very specific thing. So anyways, now we're 15 years removed from that life. And I worked in manufacturing for five years, doing sales and marketing for an e-commerce company. Sold two and a half million dollars on Amazon during COVID with sneeze guards. I don't know if you even remember what those are.

Mike Wystrach: Very much. So we had a food company at that point. So we had all of this. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Berk: So, you know, did a bunch of Amazon e-commerce direct D to C. And then after a while, I'm like, I I feel like I need to do something risky. I wanna I wanna just jump into startup territory. And so I left. This it was a 60 year old manufacturing company. I left in 2021, right after COVID was, you know, everyone was working from home. I was at home for six months at that point. ⁓ went to a Series F company, which is barely risky. I didn't even know you could get that far into the alphabet. They were one of Stripe's largest, you know, not manufacturers, but processors. They did like billions of dollars of Stripe process for like 501c3 nonprofits. And I worked there for a year, actually building a morning brew look alike company for them. Okay. Most serendipitous job. You could do. Random post I saw, a mutual friend of a mutual friend said, Who knows what morning brew is? I raised my hand. I was like, I'm obsessed with morning brew. I read morning brew. I've, you been Tweeting at the founders at that point. They're like, we're looking for someone to just build this engine for us. So I got that job. That was my first startup job. From there, after a year, I went to seed startups. I had my own consultancy. I did really fractional director work for marketing and for sales and just early building this the process of actually go to market. And that led to Beehive ultimately, where the newsletter world was, I was living it, I was breathing it, and they needed someone that could both understand the market.

Mike Wystrach: How early was Beehive at that point?

Daniel Berk: Very early. I met Tyler a month after they launched because of that Series F startup where I was building a morning brew lookalike. I had patched together five or six different tools to make this process that he had he had already done for Morning Brew and was now doing for Beehive. So I reached out to him, I was like, hey, what you're doing is awesome. If it, if it does what you're saying it will do, it solves all of my problems. So we stayed in touch. I actually interviewed for the first employee. Wasn't a good fit. And and I will say that now and would have said that then, but I kept in touch. I was like, dude, what you're building is awesome. So I started bringing a lot of my clients from their different, you know, dilapidated platforms over to Beehive. And then about seven or eight months later, he hired me ⁓ as the first go to market hire. Well, I love I

Mike Wystrach: And so Beehive, so we launched our newsletter on Beehive. So I got all the benefit of all the hard work. I never had to stitch all the things together, but platform's awesome. You joined that and that how much was that doing in revenue when you joined? How how big was that business?

Daniel Berk: ⁓ I don't remember the exact number we're doing in revenue. It was less than a million. And I remember because we celebrated a million. A million. It was 12 of us. We did a paint and sip virtually. ⁓ I think there were only 10 showed up because some people couldn't make it. And so 12 employees, maybe 10 or 11 people, hour long paint and sip. And so we we were probably doing 700,000 when I joined, or maybe 600,000. It was funny because the what I tell everyone who knows me in real life, my friends, they're all like, yo, why are you joining this? This company, what's it called? Beehive? No one knew what Beehive was. And I was already doing a bunch of risky startup stuff. That's all Beehive was when I joined. Is yeah. ⁓ this is just like another risky startup. And that's my life, my love language is risky startups. Like never would have thought it would become what it is today. I always thought it could, and that's why I joined. I'm never gonna join a startup that I'm gonna Yeah, version. So you

Mike Wystrach: Is the first salesperson, right? You're and who were you calling? What was your ICP at that time?

Daniel Berk: Yeah, really at that point it was creators. One of our biggest first

Mike Wystrach: Just really like that was the unique aspect 'cause they kinda went after more of this influencer creator. Yeah. It was a

Daniel Berk: a substack competitor when I first joined. And so people thought of how do I write online and distribute to an audience with email? Beehive was in that right down the middle center of that of that ecosystem. As I joined, I built out a real enterprise process for the company and There were no enterprise customers when I joined. Enterprise being, you know, people with hundreds of thousands or millions of, you know, audience members, subscribers, podcast listeners, whatever that audience looks like. It was a lot of creators going from zero to one. Someone who says, I don't have anything. Where should I start? I know Morning Brew because I've read Morning Brew. I know the hustle. Some of these different opportunities out there. They wanted to start. So we were going after them. But Every now and again you'd get someone that says, Hey, I have a really big audience now. So we knew the product market fit was, ⁓ wait, if we can, if we can serve this audience that knows we exist now and has huge audiences already, then we could actually go up market quite effectively. And so I really created the system that helped to build out a real sales, you know, team, a sales process, a sales outbound motion from effectively nothing. And that's

Mike Wystrach: one thing at least I see with a lot of SaaS is if you smart start really small yeah at that lower ICP and then build the features, build the features, build the features. One, you're gonna get some breakouts, but then you're also the product's actually going to be ready to get enterprise. Cause yeah imagine when you guys started selling enterprise, it is a a whole nother

Daniel Berk: ⁓ it's crazy. I mean, you would you would you would mention one word and they'd say, All right, we need SOC 2, we need infosec. We don't even know how to spell SOC 2. What are you talking about? Yeah, and it's funny because we early on, we eventually matured out of this, but early on, we would build the enterprise solution when a customer said, We need this. Yeah. We'll pay you. Here's money, but we can't pay you until you build specifically this. Well, okay, we'll build it. Done, build it. Here's the you know, have a basic

Mike Wystrach: Customers and you're

Daniel Berk: Exactly. And so we really touted that as our nimble product velocity of hey, we you know, twenty percent of our roadmap at that point was dedicated to customers.

Mike Wystrach: What did that sales growth team look like underneath like how how big did that team end end up growing to?

Daniel Berk: Yeah, I mean, when it I joined, we had no solutions team, we had no sales team, we had no customer success team. And so I was end to end. We we eventually hired a customer success team fairly early on, but I mean, when I sold it was passed to who? There's no one else after the sales process except customer support and we had a support team. I was the first and there's now in the company there are four AEs and a VP of sales. There are five or six solutions engineers and probably eight to ten customer success managers. ⁓ wow. You know, 140 employees. So it's it really did scale.

Mike Wystrach: They say do you do they report how much ⁓ revenue is now or can you share the

Daniel Berk: A reported thirty million ARR, which I didn't say. So that's the most recent as of you know

Mike Wystrach: And you went into chief evangelists, which was what is a chief evangelist?

Daniel Berk: Yeah, Chief Evangelist is funny. I remember ⁓ that was that was originally just like a self given title. I remember texting Tyler Denk. I was like, hey, I'm just gonna start calling myself Chief Evangelist. Is that cool? He's like, I don't care. It's funny. Our brand online, I don't know if you've seen any of our idiotic banter on LinkedIn, but a lot of what I think makes Beehive human to people and removes some of the facade of where a lot of the competitors were in this ecosystem. If you go buy something from MailChimp, There's no real human behind MailChimp that you can like personify. ⁓ MailChimp is this human. Beehive, you think of Tyler Dink, you think of Daniel Burke, you think of all the different C-suite, the people who are actively online. So Tyler and I created very intentionally early on this irreverent dumbness online where he would say something like I I remember when when I when I posted, Hey, I'm leaving Beehive and here's here's all this stuff. He commented, he's like, You never even worked here. And it got almost ratioed me, but we're just we're still doing that even after having left. And

Mike Wystrach: Yeah.

Daniel Berk: So chief evangelist, I just co-branded myself with the company early on, not intentionally. Early on, I'm like, dude, no one knows what beehive is. And the only way I'm gonna sell people who, you know, don't laugh me off. Yeah. Is if I'm constantly putting myself and beehive in the same sentence. Because I know I have an audience and I can build an audience. But if my audience leans into this thing, I'm sending

Mike Wystrach: Do you have an audience before you went to to be Ivor were you kinda

Daniel Berk: Not gonna do now. ⁓ I did a a little bit. I had maybe fifteen thousand people on LinkedIn. So not zero, maybe ten to fifteen. I had, you know, five thousand or so on on Twitter. I was doing some stuff, but it wasn't like people didn't know who I was.

Mike Wystrach: And then so from B I, where in that journey did you start branching out and start to say, like, Okay, now I wanna start thinking about doing my own thing. How did that look?

Daniel Berk: I think that's what's so unique about Beehive, and I'll even, you know, say Tyler specifically. He always to this day encourages people at Beehive who are full time employees to also dog food their own product. He has his own newsletter, Big Desk Energy. And I would say thirty, maybe more employees right now as of today, have their own revenue generating businesses that are actually built on Beehive. ⁓ wow. And so very early on, well, I had my own personal newsletter on Beehive before I worked at Beehive. So that's how I I, you know, I was bringing clients over, I knew how to use the product. That's how I sold myself to Beehive. I can sell this product because I'm already selling this product. So that was, you know, an easy way for me to prove I know how to do this. But I just kept running that newsletter. And then over time I'm helping people onboard their own companies to Beehive. And, you know, in that process, you realize, ⁓ wait a second, I can do this pretty well because I've done it. 10 times, now a hundred times, now a thousand times. I've probably built a thousand B Hive accounts over the years. And doing that, you realize, ⁓ these are all similar, different flavors of the exact same business model. You have paid subscriptions, you have ads, you have podcasts, you have, you know, owned media, earned media. These people are all making money with different content verticals, but the system is systematizable. Yeah. And so as I learned that, I'm like, well, let me go launch a podcast. I remember my podcast at the time was Two Dads in Tech.

Mike Wystrach: Yeah.

Daniel Berk: And this entire vertical of mine started with one DM I sent to someone who I had never met, who I just he saw me and I saw him and we had DM'd a couple times. I onboarded him to Beehive. So we met virtually, but we we never still to this day never met. I said, Hey, you want to launch a podcast with me? And he said, Yes. That's it. First podcast episode was literally the first time we met in face to face on a video. And so I DMed him, I Hey, it would be super cool to launch this podcast as the first time we meet. And we should record it. And it should be we talk and just introduce each other than at the end say, Hey, we should make this a podcast. And then that's actually the episode. And that's what it was. We did seventy-eight thousand dollars in the first thirteen months of that podcast.

Mike Wystrach: If you were gonna advise a K someone just starting a podcast, what do you think you guys did exceptionally well on that? Yeah. To like get that.

Daniel Berk: ⁓ there's a lot I think we did that more people should do. The first one is what I think more people have found out now about since TBPN sold to OpenAI. We clipped the mess out of our podcast. And so every single week we recorded one long form podcast. Sometimes we had a guest, sometimes it was just him and I bantering with each other. But every single week for I think sixty weeks. recorded podcast, never missed a break. When I went on vacation, I brought my studio with me. When he went on vacation, same thing. Never missed. But what we did is we had a we hired an offshore team who clipped every video into three short form videos every single day of the month, over and over and over again. So we posted three short form videos on Reels, three short form videos on TikTok, three on LinkedIn. And at one point we were doing X as well.

Mike Wystrach: So the engine and media, the machine you're building is a content engine. A content engine. Yeah, it's just how do you create content on content on content?

Daniel Berk: And we also leaned into our our existing audiences. So I at that point throughout had gotten to twenty to thirty thousand on LinkedIn and he also had 40 to at the end about 55,000 on LinkedIn. So we would package everything for sponsors as a two dads in tech frontman, but actually the package is you're getting access to our LinkedIn audiences.

Mike Wystrach: To getting more stuff in there as well. So we're gonna, you know, and and kinda build a package for that person that makes sense for them. And then 'cause you're in newsletters and you you know that world very well in Beehive. Podcast is a different medium. Totally. How did you get smart in that? Like how like you okay

Daniel Berk: Dumb mistakes. I literally remember the thought I had in my mind and the moment I had the thought of I have no idea how to do podcasts, but I really want to know. And so I just tried and tried long enough and hard enough. And getting a co-host was a really smart decision because you're always in it together with someone else. I think actually a lot more people who have no idea what they're doing should have a co host because you don't have to script everything if you're talking to someone.

Mike Wystrach: Yeah.

Daniel Berk: If you're talking to a camera, you say something or else you're what do you do? You know, there's no pausing. And so I think some of it was finding the right co-host who was equally as idiotic as me and willing to make a ton of mistakes, but just being consistent. Some of these episodes, no one in the world's gonna listen to, but it's a rep. If you can get enough reps in, you're gonna get better at something.

Mike Wystrach: Where did you kind of start? Like your vision was like we're gonna do this, and then where where did you what actually resonated with people?

Daniel Berk: Yeah, guests. ⁓ to be honest, it was we every single episode we had that performed better was always a guest. If you look at just the episodes we did with guests versus the ones that were just banter between Troy's name and I, it was like night and day. And so eventually we got to the point where he and I both had to decide, okay, to do this right, we either need to make this a thing and make it a business. We were spending one hour a week on it. For the first 12 weeks, we spent more than that to optimize the exact way we would delegate to an offshore team. But eventually we literally were doing one hour of work every single week. Wow. He had his own company. I had a full time job. And that was all we could do. So early on, literally day one, we're like, we're only going to do this if we don't have to waste our lives doing it. But when we realized, ⁓ we can make, you know, six or seven figures doing this, we have to waste our lives if we're gonna keep going this way or we gotta shut it down. We just decided let's just go on hiatus. So and so he's he's out right now, which is fine, amicable, great guy. But Now I'm I'm literally right now I don't know what to do with this podcast. I have a conversation with the podcast advisor next week. I have this asset that I could definitely do, but it's just it's a thing. I mean, you gotta keep oiling the machine for it to keep going.

Mike Wystrach: One of things, and I heard the stat and I didn't verify it. I should have, but I'll repeat it anyways. But someone you can verify this. But thirty percent of podcasts only launch one podcast, seventy percent only launch three podcasts. I do think when you look at the top podcasters, it is just you're gonna you're gonna stay in longer and you're just gonna keep making more and more

Daniel Berk: It's easy. But I think the stat I do know, and I now I'm I'm on the spot. I feel like I should be checked on this too. But I think 90% of podcasts don't make it to 20 episodes. That's the one I always come back to. 20 episodes. I remember Troy and I like kind of celebrated episode 20 because we're like, all right, we're we're now in the five percent or whatever. Yeah, yeah. We we had no views, we had no subscribers, no one cared about us. Yeah, but we were having a blast. And now we have a skill set. I mean, I host money wise now and That came from having Sam Parr on Two Dads and Tech and meeting him and developing that relationship for two years and just having the reps of learning how to have the taste and the flow and the cadence of podcasts.

Mike Wystrach: You that pocket, you guys make seventy eight thousand you said the first year. So you're making got this good side hustle. At what point did you say, Okay, now I'm gonna make this side hustle the full hustle?

Daniel Berk: Yeah, so we did, you know, seventy-eight or so thousand. I did another twenty or thirty that year just from creating content for different brands and stuff. And also getting paid by like Twitter pays me and stuff. Not meaningful, but I mean it's like five thousand dollars for posting. Yeah, literally being an idiot online. I get paid money. That's pretty cool. And then I have a a media company with my wife that I started a little bit earlier than Two Dads in Tech. And so when I I was doing my taxes this year. And I have a tax guy now, which thank God, because I I sent him so many things. I I literally apologize to him. I'm like paying him. I shouldn't apologize. But I'm like, I'm sorry. I sent him another document, which you are more than familiar with how complicated it can get. And I'm like, wait a second, I make a ton of money not on my W two. What am I doing here? And so I'm always turning down people in Beehive space specifically. They're like, Hey, you know, thanks for this. I I just opened an account. Can you help more? And I'm like, the the true answer was no. Like I I I literally one, it's not my job. To get you to be successful on this platform, but also do it on time because I have to go sell it to the next person. And also I have all these other dude, I could crush it for this person, but I can't. And so it got to the point where I'm like, okay, I think I've developed enough skills in enough places. The literal worst case that happens is 12 months from now, I crash and burn and I just go get a job. I just turned on a job.

Mike Wystrach: I think it's a whole other onboarding.

Daniel Berk: That was like $300,000 salary. And I'm like, okay, well, if worst case is I go get a high paying job in tech, that's like a really, really safe bet. And I know like I'm not downplaying job markets crazy. No one knows what the future looks like. AI is eating the world. But besides that, worst case is not that bad. So let me bet on myself as yeah.

Mike Wystrach: I think that's that confidence to be able to like, I'm always employable. You've left Beehive now fully, and now you're you're kinda out in the wilderness. I I've grown up in like the traditional kind of founder, VC. My parents are small business. Before entrepreneur was cool, it was called small business. Daddy's entrepreneur, and like that is ninety-nine percent of what entrepreneurs out there. But I also think that is the thing that I think is going to be the most success accessible for for everyone. And I think everyone and I also I think it's also the right thing for a lot of people. Raising venture capital comes with this whole other kind of game. I think it gets a lot of hype, but there's a lot of challenges there as well. I was tell Patagonia never raised any money. Pretty cool business, right? There's lots of cool business. But I I do think that it's still scary even if like I got another job. So now you've got two podcasts. You still have one going and then money wise as well.

Daniel Berk: wise and then I have two dads in tech is on hiatus but it'll come back probably with a different name pretty soon. Yeah ⁓ we have a twice a week newsletter to parents in Charleston South Carolina and parents separately in Somerville South Carolina. We have a full-time writer we have a salesperson I mean we we love it and it's

Mike Wystrach: Are you still doing the with your wife? Are you guys still doing the So now that you're all in, if you kinda think about what is the future, yeah, how how do you think about building this business? What what do you want? What's the goal? I don't

Daniel Berk: No. That's that's what's that's what's fun and exciting and terrifying. Is so I so separately, and I can't tell you all the details of this one, but I just opened a ⁓ an LLC with a buddy of mine and a business bank account, and we have a fully viable product that we're ready to release that I'm very, very excited about. There's a world where we just launch micro sas, you know, over and over and do, you know, a few million dollars a year just you know, fifty-fifty stake and that's that's kind of what we're starting. I'm like, if we if we can be very good at optimizing process with AI, lean into audience and owned media and earned media, and then just have trust where when you do suggest something to the people who are listening to you, you one, don't put your foot in your mouth. And two, actually have people who respect you and buy the thing that you're suggesting. I'm like I'm like, that that sounds like an infinite cash tree to me. I don't know if it is because I haven't made it yet, but I'm like, if I can just repeat the same process that I've done over and over and over again for myself and own fifty plus percent of the company, why not just do that over and over and over again? Yeah, just repeat the So that's kind of the the current I kind of was just experimenting. I I'm honestly like, how high can I take this thing without committing to one thing?

Mike Wystrach: Yeah. ⁓ What do you think? Like if you're if you're talking to other people that were were like, is it just like getting the game? Just like is that like Absolutely?

Daniel Berk: Just start. Start something. I mean, I it's funny. I tweeted today. I said, and it was like kind of irreverent because I don't believe this fully, but that's my Twitter brand. I said, a Twitter audience or an ex audience is the most valuable asset you can have in the internet. And like again, like I can pick that apart myself, but I said it because it's a great tweet. ⁓ someone said, sounds good. How's 19 followers? And I like, ⁓ it's hilarious. And I clicked on their profile and they had 18 followers. And I haven't responded to them yet. I will after this, but That's great. Like that person just started, and they're they have 18 people listening to them. Like, it is kind of laughable. It's not a lot. It's not going to make you any money, but eventually it will. And every single person starts at zero at some point.

Mike Wystrach: You gotta stay. I mean, I I was just we I was just talking the other day and I was I was talking about I when we started freshly, I used to refresh my my Google Analytics, which would show us how how many that's the only dashboard we have, but that would show us how many how many customers, how many orders. And I I literally would refresh it all day and like there'd be one order. And I'd be like and then like two and then but I remember I remember literally like walking my dog and refreshing it every time an order came out, I'd be like yes. Yeah like

Daniel Berk: Well, yeah.

Mike Wystrach: And so it went from one to like then 10, then it was like 20. And then but but when we sold, it was literally we were getting in a week, we would get, you know, 50,000 new customers in there. That wasn't even like we sold our last week. We did 1.1 million meals that we sold. So that's yeah, ten dollars a meal. That is absolutely like it's insane. But it started with that one. And I remember people were always like, like, and and I was probably more excited when that one customer did would come in than I was like, ⁓ 50. It's like it's you know, it's just like But it is just getting in the game and then staying in the game. I kinda that's always what I tell people is like you gotta commit to ten years. I actually saw a post by the the Bloom guy and we anchored the same thing, but I always think in ten year journeys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me it's always like you're signing up like when I when we did Pet Folk, I said I I inked it, I said ten years. Yeah. And I shared every all the goals and everything was a ten year journey. Yeah. That's the minimum. Like and I think if you if you whether whatever you're doing, you gotta think in ten year increments. You gotta wanna do it for ten years is is it

Daniel Berk: Do it. People think, well, what's the best way to start a business, or what's the best, like what's the most lucrative business idea? And I'm like, well, what do you like to do? What makes you excited to wake up? I think sometimes people get too far along in monetizing the asset and they before wait a second, do you even like doing that? Because if you hate doing that or you're not obsessed with it, like one year is gonna be hard, not let alone 10 years. So I think you're absolutely right. And I I resonate with the Stripe story as well. I remember early days that we had a Stripe channel in the Slack for Beehive and like the whole company would like, you know, at channel every few hours, like just a reminder, like people are actually paying for this. And it it it's crazy. I mean, the adrenaline that comes from people buying a product that you build. Is awesome.

Mike Wystrach: Let me pause here for a second and introduce you to our title sponsor, Propel. Every business I've built has had a huge, huge, huge piece with international talent. And as we started building the advantage, we wanted to bring in international talent focused around media, podcasts. And we started doing a lot of research and we came across Propel. And we were really excited first and foremost to use them for us. And we later reached out as a sponsor. Here's the best part. It's all performance-based. You only pay one off fee once you actually hire someone. That means no retainers, no ongoing costs, plus every hire comes with a three-month guarantee. I think bringing on international talent is really hard, really rewarding. As we all know, bringing a talent onto your team is the most important part about building a business. And with Propel, I can speak for ourselves. They have been a huge part of our ability to recruit great talent to our team. Every advantaged listener gets 10% off their first hire. For more information, check out the show notes. Now you're doing money wise and and you've taken over and like such a cool podcast, huge platform. You're now interviewed you're you're like an a relatively early founder building this business. What is like some of the top like advice that you've heard on the channel that you're just like on the on the podcast that you're just like that resonates so much? Yeah.

Daniel Berk: I mean, it's a whole spectrum. I think it's it shocks me how many people say that money they got from an exit didn't make them happy. And and so when you think of, ⁓ wow, like a billion dollars, or you know, you talk to people who have hundreds of millions of dollars and you're like, wow, that sounds awesome. It solves so many of my problems. Like, well, like the first maybe 10, maybe the first 20, that it solves a lot of problems. But like eventually we have on money-wise, we call it a threshold number. Like what number just ended needing more where like any more wouldn't have made any difference. It's way lower than I expect with most people. You know, I I I talked to a guy recently who he's worth personally about $600 million. And he said, you know, he sold one company for $1.5 billion. And he said that didn't that didn't really change my life. It was the first company he sold for 13 million that made me a millionaire. That changed everything. Every everything after that was just a repeatable process and more money. But that first one was the the everything changer.

Mike Wystrach: Yeah, and I think that's like, you know, the old I I get is like you can only sleep in one bed. You can only drive one car. So like the first is always the most important. So like having a home, buying a home that your family loves, like that is that's game changer. Having a home that you can walk into every day and say, like, ⁓ my God, I love this. Yeah. You know, not worrying about paying groceries and the mortgage. Those are the benchmarks that I think like and you know, for a a lot of like for for a lot of Americans, that's like that is is is the the threshold. What I always think is like I always talk to people and know I'm like, what's your goal? Yeah. 'Cause I I we go you know, at Cutting Horse we we're talking to a lot of founders. You always wanna like again, I always wanna know like I'm getting on the journey with you. What journey is that? Like Yeah, it's ⁓ my analogy I always give is like we're gonna get in a car, we're gonna go road trip. Yeah. Like we should know where each one of us wanna go because like a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, we like you don't wanna take turns driving and you think we're going to Florida and I think we're going to California. I mean it may be an interesting road trip but

Daniel Berk: What a great analogy. So

Mike Wystrach: But so like always is like, what do you want to build? Like there's no right or wrong on that. But then when you start actually talking to people, it's like, what's the goal? And people like, you know, I want to be a billionaire. It's like, okay, well, for what? Like what is that? What does that solve? So like I get it. Like if you're in business, the game is is like your benchmark inverse other founders. But I'm like, ⁓ under the hood, what do you really want? Like when you get to most people, it's like, ⁓ man, I've I've like really the number's a lot lower. It's like it's that 10 million mark. Yeah. Whereas like you're like, okay, I want to like have a great home. Okay. What does that look like? Okay. You bought it's a five million dollar home. Okay. Well, you only need you put a down payment on a million. And then it's like some degree of cash flow. And I always think like the small business, the the owned business, and I talked to a lot of and I think it's it's just yo, really excited to have you on the podcast because I think it's like building the job you w building a dream job. Yes. And if you can build a dream job that you wake up stoked, you're learning every day, you're talking to great people, you're building your network. You're trying new things. You're able to pay for things. Like that's the goal. Like to me, it's like that's the first goal. That's for

Daniel Berk: What it is. And and I was just talking to a friend of mine who has ⁓ I had to like question it. He said he's never made his first dollar online, which nowadays is like actually hard to believe sometimes when I talk to people. I'm like, are you serious? Like super smart guy. And he said, You're gonna help me make my first dollar. And I was like, dude, it's gonna change your whole life. And I think that's that's what a lot of people don't realize is two things. One, it is very, very easy to make your first dollar online. It's not easy to become a billionaire or a millionaire online. That's hard. It takes a lot of time. It takes, but to make your first dollar, I can do that today. Give me any subject, any person, any skill set, I'll make you one dollar right now online. There's literally nothing you could throw at me that couldn't make a dollar. So that's one thing. But the second thing that most people don't realize is that first dollar will change everything for the rest of your life. Yeah. The moment you realize this random person who I'm never gonna meet ever, who I might not even know their real name. All I have is this token on Stripe gave me a dollar, $10, $20, whatever. You're like, wait a second, I can do this again. Okay, go do it again then. That's all entrepreneurs are doing is they'd find one thing that someone buys and they do it a million.

Mike Wystrach: It's amazing. And I I like again, I I think it's such an exciting story because I think ⁓ look, I'm very bullish on AI. I think it's actually gonna unlock people's ability to like I think what we've continuously seen with technology is that it it gets rid of the rigorous things that we don't like. Like, you know, you go back two hundred years ago, something like fifty percent of the population was farming, now two percent and we have more food and more abundance like

Daniel Berk: Ranching, farming.

Mike Wystrach: Yes. I grew up ranching. But like the goal is is like how do we not do the things we don't like so we can do the things and I think like what I see is like this what we call right now as like an influencer economy. It's like this, you know, creating podcasts, creating newsletters, then creating products around that. And really creating like you're like I think what I'm seeing that's happening is the inverse of what used to happen, right? So now what and I think it gets like foo food and like you're an influencer. And I get some of that. But what you're really doing is you're creating a marketing machine before you create the product. Yes. Now, what you normally the old way done is you create a product, then you would create the marketing machine and you have to learn the marketing machine and you build the brand. But like really what the opportunity now, and I think this is what I I tell people is like, you can now go build the marketing machine. Yeah. You can build the Twitter, you can build the podcast, you can build the newsletter. Thanks to your tools that you're building are like relatively free. Yeah. Like you're talking $30 a month. Negligible. They're amazing. They they require literally no knowledge. I mean My first when we were like freshly, we were doing CRMs. It was like you had to code HTML, you had to do all these things. So get an email out was like ⁓ now it's like you like can have the most gorgeous email done in two seconds. So I just think the opportunity of like how do more people to your point like take this digital idea, take you know I think you're a great example of like you realized how to build the marketing engine. Now you're going backwards and saying, Well, now let's start building the products.

Daniel Berk: ⁓ someone I respect, his name is Tebow, and I actually had him on Money Wise. He has five revenue generating products that are all like indie hacked products. A lot of them, if not all of them, somewhat related to AI, if not built by AI. And he does a million a month in revenue from those five. And he's majority owner of all of them. And yeah, I think he's brought in some you know co-founders at some point and some but What he does, he has about 150,000 followers on X. And every single idea he has, he uses his audience to find if there's product market fit or not. And if there is, he builds it and then he makes money. If there's not, he very quickly invalidates it and moves on. And you can do that if you have 150,000 people listening to you. If you don't, it's a lot harder and a lot more strenuous to go find product market fit. But he can do it immediately with 150,000 followers.

Mike Wystrach: And that's what I think is like the the the so much more attainable like again, look, I think the founder journey is amazing on any way you join. But like I do think people sometimes think like, Well, I gotta come up with the billion dollar idea. I gotta come up with like what's the next Google or fate and then I gotta hire an engineer and I gotta do these things. Like, no, no, no. Like the goal can be so much easier. The goal to your point is like make a dollar.

Daniel Berk: And I don't think people realize how much an audience can do for them. People think, ⁓ what what is a newsletter audience gonna do for me? You know, they start talking about CPMs, like ad placements can, you know, ten dollar CPM is not gonna move the needle. And I'm like, don't think of stuff owned audience earned media as CPMs. I have 20,000 people who listen to me in South Carolina every time I send an email. And I might wanna open a co-working space because in my small town there is none and there are tons of tech transplants from New York and Jersey and I can go do that and tell 20,000 people who are potential buying customers that I have a new a new business. I can go open a restaurant. I can do anything and tell twenty thousand people right there in my zip code that it exists and that business has fifty to seventy five percent more chance of success.

Mike Wystrach: The more niche you are, actually, a lot of times, like the better, like the more your your knowledge is is like more like really narrow. Yeah. I love like I'm a big YouTube fan. I always tell people, like, I think it's like the best bang for the buck on everything. It's awesome. But one of the things I love is going down these like rabbit holes of like things that people are insane professionals at. Yeah. So you're like, I can't believe someone does it. One of them is and the views that this these guys have, but one is restoring golf clubs. Yeah. And and

Daniel Berk: That's mine too to watch.

Mike Wystrach: Completely satisfying. And then the other one that just blows my mind, which is the and I'm forgetting his name, and I'm sure please leave in the comments or tell us. But it's this guy who mows lawns. He goes to people's house

Daniel Berk: Love that one. So they're like dilapidated like like foreclosures b

Mike Wystrach: So I'm doing so I'm doing and I was talking to like our team and I was like guys the the economy is changing on our and so like you could own a landscaping business and you could then go out and you do or you could own this business who's creating content. The last video I looked at, he had a million five views on. So I was doing back of the envelope math on like what he's making on that. So I'm like, this guy does one he one day where he posts one video. The editing's very, very not high-end. Yeah. It's just him. There's no one This guy's probably making a hundred thousand dollars per episode that he's doing and he's doing an episode a week. And that that's like the but now he's building this brand where he's got a million three. So now he can he can start building his own yeah mower. He can build his own T like and and so the thing is is like when you get that many eyeballs, and I think this is like, you know, when we build Freshly, we built the product first. Yep. And then we built a marketing machine. Yep. And our marketing machine was all about paid ads. Yeah. But we spent in order to build that business. I'm guessing we handed over Probably in the magnitudes of two hundred total, maybe more to to Mark Zuckerberg. Two hundred million to Mark Zuckerberg. We said, here you go. Now, in in in turn, he created, we you know, maybe it wasn't two hundred, it's probably a hundred, but we created over two billion dollars of revenue in that business off that. So it was a very good ROI. But if you have if you have people following you, if you have people watching you, and I'm like, I'm always like have like people are like, I don't have anything. I'm like, do you mow lawns? That's what this guy does. And if you mows lawns, like

Daniel Berk: He can do with that money. I mean, the the lawn mowing guy, but also like people, you know, there's a lot of people that go just like randomly do something generous for people. And you know, the the the comments are always like, ⁓ you can't film people like that. But what they do with it is they'll, hey, here's here's a thousand dollars. I, you know, your story resonated with me. Sometimes they're like undercover and it's like a whole sob story. But then a lot of times you'll see, hey, we talked to them after and we we made a go fund me for this person. And with their audience of a million people that watched, I mean, I've seen people raise a million plus dollars. for these random strangers that they the first video just here's a thousand dollars, you know, thank you for doing something kind for me. This is on video. And obviously I'm sure they get people's permission. But then they go raise a million dollars. They change people's lives just from their audience.

Mike Wystrach: And that's what then people are like criticizing. You're like, even if the guy is making money off that, like the then net is the guy got a million yeah, yeah. He got a million dollars on this. So like I'm pretty sure like you

Daniel Berk: Mr. Beast is so funny because I I I personally love Mr. Beast, but he gets flack for like, you know, you could do with all this money, you could blah blah blah the world. And he has a his own philanthropy arm where he goes and like literally like saves people's lives with hundreds of millions of dollars in philanthropy. And he does makes videos about them. People are like, This is terrible. You shouldn't make video about like you know recovering the sight of the blind. He's like, How do you think I pay for this? Like the video is paying for their eyesight. Like, but he can't win. And so there's this whole game.

Mike Wystrach: And I do think like that is part of this of like putting yourself out there, doing things, no matter what it is, whether you're you're doing a product, whether you're doing is like haters, there's a lot of haters out there. And it's easy on the beginning to hate, you know, your Twitter guy. When you have 19, it's easy to hate on that. Yeah. But like at the end of the day, every single one of these businesses started there. Like everything starts there. That's the journey. It's it's getting in the game. And then staying in the game at doing something you love. Where do you think like what what do you what are you really excited about? So you've got the product coming out. What else are you really excited on?

Daniel Berk: Honestly, I'm excited about AI. And I know we've talked a little bit about it already, but I think people who understand the human behind the technology, like every I I just consulted with a company doing an email right now last week and I was like, hey, you gotta remind yourself every single person that gives you their email is a person. So don't don't get fooled by like, ⁓ my list is growing. No, no, no. More people are giving you their information. You have to think of your audience as individual people in a room. You think of a thousand people in a room, like that's a lot of people. Yeah. But then you think, well, a thousand email subscribers is nothing. It's like, well, what about a thousand people? So I I start there, but what AI does, if you understand that, if you understand your audience are people, it accelerates everything. If you understand that first, if you know, in my opinion, traditional growth, traditional marketing, this the systems that you can use to scale something from one to ten, from ten to a hundred. AI can make all that happen much faster and I think it can validate ideas much more.

Mike Wystrach: What do you think some of those examples like you're using your kind of like you you you know that they're humans. How do you think how are you using AI now to kind of like to to really accelerate that?

Daniel Berk: So I have an audience that trusts me and I speak very like openly on Twitter and on LinkedIn. And I'm I'm like very irreverent. I just like say I literally say what's top of mind. But with podcasting, clipping is very time intensive and usually requires a team that knows what they're doing, or there's a lot of AI tools out there, but they're not great. So I created my own agent with Claude that scrapes a hundred percent of what I do in every long form video and finds the transcripts and then gives me five every single day. five timestamps of possible clipping opportunities. And all I have to do is click a button to approve that timestamp. It will go create it from YouTube. It'll literally download the YouTube video, create the timestamp of the video. And then with my voice, which I've given it something to the effect of 60 or 70,000 different posts that I've written on X and LinkedIn over the last 15 years, it knows how I write. And so it'll also draft a post for me. So all I have to do is review the timestamp, review the video, review the post, edit a couple of things because I always wanted, you know, have my own human touch there and then post it across three different platforms where fifty thousand people are listening to me. And I can do that, I can do that every hour for the next twenty days tonight.

Mike Wystrach: The thing that I always kind of phrase like to people is like how to think about AI is AI is like in the old days you you could have done that. What you would have done is you would have hired someone exactly to do that and they would have worked seven, eight hours and then they but like now that someone is a an agent. And I think it accelerates you like today to to basically have this massive team underneath you. I still believe the man in the you gotta have the man in the middle, at least today to kind of make sure because you know it's good, but it's not great. So there's gotta be that approved process in there, but it accelerates. So that's that's an amazing example. You're using kind of the other other areas that you're kind of thinking about or areas you're like thinking of how to explore.

Daniel Berk: Yeah, I mean, I think you already sort of touched on it, but it's I call it like the the junior employee. And I I I hate it's it sounds so like the connotation surely is not good. I'm sure I'm gonna get flack for this on YouTube, but like junior employees are replacing Yeah, that's right, that's right. If you hate me, tell me in the comments. Junior employees who don't have like highly effective skill sets yet, you're starting from an area in the un in history where like you're you have to have something that's better than AI.

Mike Wystrach: Any engagements could engage again.

Daniel Berk: Or else someone's gonna choose AI over you. And so I think when I think of how do I use AI, I think of all the different needs I have that I would like to hire someone for and either don't have the money or the wherewithal to do. I'm like, well, can AI do that? And ⁓ in a kind of scary way, the answer is yes, like 90% of the time, which means two things. One, I don't have high leverage enough needs in this some of these businesses yet, which I get. Once the leverage becomes high enough, like a human's still the right opportunity, I think, in most cases. But You can scale and that's why I think this is such an exciting time is I have all these different little micro companies that I'm leveraging AI for to almost be like a I don't want to say chief of staff because I think there are people who have had like AI chief of staffs like really well done. I don't have that, but I do use AI for everything. ⁓ I mean, even something as simple as Whisperflow is a is a tool I use. And this is not a paid placement at all. Anyone listening? I love Whisperflow. I use Whisperflow. I love Whisperflow so much that my wife who uses Siri and started hating Siri with the most recent update, which if you're listening, Tim Cook, please make Siri better. It's so bad.

Mike Wystrach: But also push this way up the

Daniel Berk: Go on. Yeah. Like please. But Whisperflow, I was like, babe, you gotta you gotta and I I tell her about AI stuff all the time and she's just like that doesn't change my life at all. But Whisperflow, I was like, I'm installing Whisperflow on your phone and you're gonna see and so she uses it now. And so I'm like, there's there's this there's this middle ground. I

Mike Wystrach: Yes. If you're Tim Cook and you really buy Whisperflow, put it so we don't have to go sideways. So so it could just work.

Daniel Berk: I wanted to work. It's ⁓ dude, I could talk for a long time about series, but it with

Mike Wystrach: Like for young people out there, if there's young people listening, this is the one and we're hiring a ton of these people. So I'm telling you the great thing about AI is like since Chat GPD four point ⁓ which is what, a year, two years ago. Forever ago. That's the pl so no one has more than two years experience. And the world has changed so fast. And what we're hiring in every single company I have is what we call these AI super users, which basically they just use AI for everything. Yeah. Because what you realize is is if you're a young person and you have the build the skill of how to use AI and build AI and have these agents and agentic agents working, someone like you will will say, like, well, okay, now I'm doing all these things. Yeah. I find the value in it. So like for me is like I have many people, including on the advantage Greer, who's sitting right over there. I love all these things, but I'm also running companies and stuff. Yeah. She is a superpower in using AI. And so I would say to young people out there, you have this unique competitive advantage where you are At the same level as every really the same level as anyone, be a power user in AI. It is like don't be scared of it, lean into it, because that is gonna be the ultimate like superfection.

Daniel Berk: And I think the companies who are doing it right are leveraging AI in their employees as well. And so when you think of like building your own side hustle, absolutely learn AI, but it's also going to make you a more marketable employee. And I can talk about this because Tyler Dank, the CEO of Beehive, does openly frequently, every single employee at Beehive is expected to use AI to increase their output in ways they would not be able to without it. To the point where now people who are hired at Beehive have an AI onboarding like plan to learn how to use the tools that we had at Beehive and they still have now. People have there's AI office hours, there's like expectations of like, hey, we're a hundred thirty, hundred and forty people. Like we're gonna scale this bad boy with AI. That's that's Beehive's entire model.

Mike Wystrach: It's a superpower. I like again, I think like I I I'm very positive. I think it's gonna be a huge net positive for society. But w what else is how how else can can our followers kind of follow you and follow what you're doing?

Daniel Berk: You can find me Daniel Burke.com. ⁓ that's B-E-R-K dot com. I do consulting. I talk a lot on newsletter stuff and podcasting, but also I'm very active on Twitter X at Daniel C Burke. I'm very active on LinkedIn. You can can just Google Daniel and you can find me somewhere. ⁓ there's a there's a random guy that does videography whose name is Daniel Burke. Not me. That's not me, although I'm sure he appreciates this plug. But I mean, you can reach out, talk. I'm a real person. I'd love to have a conversation if anyone's interested in chatting.

Mike Wystrach: And then a few final questions here that I always love to ask is like outside of your podcast, what are a podcast that shows something you think is like everyone should be if they're not watching already, they should be all over. Yeah.

Daniel Berk: A guy named Chris Corner, it's spelled like K-O-E-R-N-E-R, I believe. He's like a I don't know if he calls himself this, but he's like a serial entrepreneur. Just has a bunch of cash flowing businesses that he starts and sells and buys and starts and sells. And he has a podcast called, I believe it's called The Corner Show. ⁓ I just follow Chris Corner. So I don't know what his show is called. He's awesome. And everything he says on Twitter is very valuable. So the type of follow where you're like, if I don't know really what to do, like great example. You know, brass tacks. He frequently tweets business ideas that he's like, someone should build this. Like, so if you literally don't know where to start, just go follow him and do something he suggests. So that's a great follow. I don't know. There's so many, there's so many awesome people. There's a a girl called ⁓ her name is Millie. I can't think of her last name. I'm blanking right now, but she has a a company called Generalist World. Okay. And she is like touting her whole brand right now, and she's doing quite successfully this way, is like putting generalists on a pedestal. Like, hey, here's these people doing super random, almost like goofy things to make money. And here's a list of them and here's jobs that they have available. And like here's companies that they've started. And so she has a podcast and a newsletter. She does really well. But I don't know, I I I really resonate with people who are just making money doing like funky stuff. I'm like, wow, I didn't think of that.

Mike Wystrach: There so I also love like we call like practical edges, which you gave a few. Claude, Whisperflow. Yeah. What what else it what else is like a do you think is like a s like an edge that like ⁓ makes people just

Daniel Berk: Yeah, I think everyone should open, whether it's lovable or cloud code or codex or or you know replit, like build an app. Every single person who's like, I don't know where start with AI, like don't Google how to start with AI. Choose the tool and ask it, yeah, how do I do this thing? So I've built like five different apps with Replit. ⁓ I've built even more than that with Cloud Code. And right now, like I pay for pro plans with Claude and Replit and ChatGPT and Whisperflow. There's like several others I'm blanking right now, but I'm just constantly flirting with AI, trying to figure out like what are you capable of otherwise do?

Mike Wystrach: Yeah, I mean the pro I I constantly tell people is like the pro plan on whether it's Claude or Chat GPT is like stealing. It's unbelievable. It is if you if you have the You're you're like and the hundred dollar like just once you start using it insane. And then if you don't know it's like the only thing you if you don't know how to use it, ask it how to use And it's like it's like agree like

Daniel Berk: Prompt is worth $20. And you can always like there's there's different levels, and I think people are like, Well, I don't want to overspend on tokens, like just dumb it down. Like when you aren't sure what to do, dumb it down, which and you know, Claude, you like change the actual model it's using that's less expensive. Dumb it down and be like, hey, I don't know what to do. Help me think through this, and it'll do it more cheaply than like Opus will, where it's very expensive and you know high power. So it's like there's ways to leverage AI that's like literally, like you said, like it's literally free.

Mike Wystrach: And what I found is like, so I'm a I'm like like most founders, I'm fairly opinionated. I have a strong opinion. And I think when you have an idea, like you often kind of get sensitive to that idea. So what I use Claude, and I just I just wrote about this in the newsletter, is like I use Claude a lot as like you have to play the other side. Yes. Because what I'm willing is like like it's super smart and I can give it all these things and I don't then get emotional because it's not like a person I know who I feel like is like be and so a lot of that just like It w it one, like pokes holes in in bad ideas. Two, it like sometimes reinforces that I'm like, no, I feel really good about this. But like I do it on everything. And I just like you know, my title of the thing is like McKin you have a McKinsey level consultant for free. Yeah. Like, why would you not ask a question? No, it's you can ignore, but like, why would you not just be asking all these times? And and like I just think like for a founder hack is like push things in there. Yes. And then you can again, you can always ignore, and I'm not saying like you should let like AI direct your life. I think that but like I'm just saying like it gives you it's another thought partner. It's it's relative it's basically free.

Daniel Berk: It's I mean i it it's it's an advisor, if nothing else. I mean, I have I have an agent I built that is connected to every single bank account I have, which is some people would say you're crazy for doing that. It is what it is. I pay, it's I it's a SAS. So the I paid for the SAS, but then I built the agent. I can't think of the name right now, and I probably shouldn't plug it just in case they go to jail someday or something. But it's an amazing tool that I've connected every investment, every bank account, every piece of cash, every credit card, everything. That now knows the way I spend my patterns, my behaviors, my investments, my whole portfolio. And I can ask something as simple as like, Hey, I want to take my wife out for a nice dinner. Like, where should I go and how much money do I have to spend? To I'm trying to plan a family vacation and I have, you know, this amount of money in this area of nicety in mind. Like, is that something I need to save for? Or do we have the money right now? And I get an instant answer with real data from all of my bank accounts. And they might even say, you do have the money, but you need to take it out of this, you know, illiquid asset, give yourself three weeks. I mean, it's amazing. It's literally like I'm sitting next to a so cool. I mean and it knows everything without thinking because it's already it's AI. It's like so there's so much leverage that I think people just they're learning. I mean, I'm not the smartest AI user in the world. So we're learning this, but like there are so many people who have not even tried yet. And I you just gotta try. You gotta try.

Mike Wystrach: Like having one of the best financial advisors. Well this conversation was amazing. We're we're running up against time. Thank you so much for the absolute spending some time. I can't wait. I'm gonna on the side get all these hacks on how to build newsletters really quickly. But thanks a ton.

Daniel Berk: Thanks having me on my All Have a good one. You too.